The Death of a Baby.
There has to be no greater affront to ideas of a benevolent God than the death of a baby right?
One of the sweetest most gentle spirited sisters in Christ that I have ever had the pleasure of fellowship with has just lost her baby. The Child died shortly before being delivered.
Christianity offers no rationale for sutch events. There is no past life to account for 'punishment' in this. Our God is not vengeful in the Islamic sense and for Christians there are no Ghosts or evil spirits to blame.
On the face of it, it looks like your average Christian has to juggle three mutually exclusive 'facts'
1. God loves people.
2. God is all powerful.
3. The innocent suffer.
Plain logic says any two of these facts can be sustained if we exclude the remaining one. If God loves people and the innocent suffer (facts 1 and 3) then God is not powerful enough to interviene (bye bye fact 2). If God Loves people and God is all powerful (1 and 2) then we must blind ourselves to the suffering Children of the world (adios fact 3)... right?
BUT>>>
I take so much comfort and my faith is stronger because of this apparent flaw in the Christian world view!
Unlike the other major religions of the world Christianty doesnt attempt to rationalise things like the concentration camps of Eastern Europe or the brutality of African conflict or the death of my friends baby.
We are offered no neat explanation, Instead, we go back to a rocky hill outside Jerusalem, where God himself took the very worst that the world had to offer and chose to suffer with us.
Resolution will come one day, but untill then the man who was God stands foursquare with us as a shield against hopelesness and as a fellow sufferer. . . . God suffers with us.
Its enough for me.
There has to be no greater affront to ideas of a benevolent God than the death of a baby right?
One of the sweetest most gentle spirited sisters in Christ that I have ever had the pleasure of fellowship with has just lost her baby. The Child died shortly before being delivered.
Christianity offers no rationale for sutch events. There is no past life to account for 'punishment' in this. Our God is not vengeful in the Islamic sense and for Christians there are no Ghosts or evil spirits to blame.
On the face of it, it looks like your average Christian has to juggle three mutually exclusive 'facts'
1. God loves people.
2. God is all powerful.
3. The innocent suffer.
Plain logic says any two of these facts can be sustained if we exclude the remaining one. If God loves people and the innocent suffer (facts 1 and 3) then God is not powerful enough to interviene (bye bye fact 2). If God Loves people and God is all powerful (1 and 2) then we must blind ourselves to the suffering Children of the world (adios fact 3)... right?
BUT>>>
I take so much comfort and my faith is stronger because of this apparent flaw in the Christian world view!
Unlike the other major religions of the world Christianty doesnt attempt to rationalise things like the concentration camps of Eastern Europe or the brutality of African conflict or the death of my friends baby.
We are offered no neat explanation, Instead, we go back to a rocky hill outside Jerusalem, where God himself took the very worst that the world had to offer and chose to suffer with us.
Resolution will come one day, but untill then the man who was God stands foursquare with us as a shield against hopelesness and as a fellow sufferer. . . . God suffers with us.
Its enough for me.
posted by Mr.Thomas at 18:24
6 Comments:
exactly...
to be able to rationlize God is a paradox.
i'll pray for your friend.
i don't believe in god soley because i think it's something created by human, god doesn't exist before human. it's kind of strange 'cause i was born batisped and went to a catholic school. i know god is gonna spank me some day. muahaha. anyway, it's good to have faith, and i have it with something else :)
Hey Cheryl, I agree its good to have faith, as long as its in something reliable! I am curious about what it is you DO have faith in! The end of your message is quite mysterious....is it too personal to tell?
I know the world is divided into people who believe Man made God, and people who believe that God made man. The belief about which came first is the same of course.
The reason I shifted from the first, to the second group at the age of nineteen-ish is a long story but let me just say.......
If humanity was going to invent a 'God' to give them pschological support, I think it would at least attempt to explain why babies die aswell as the other 'gaps' in our understanding.
I must admit I started giving some credit to what Jesus claimed about himself when I realised that he wasn't trying to explain away suffering. It was a big first step for me becoming a Christian, thinking about these things for myself.
You know what, sadly it isnt so wierd! I have met quite a few people who have been through a Roman Catholic education and come out the other side strong in a belief like yours. What do they do in those schools!!! Do the nuns beat you with rulers!! are you forced to pray?
Sorry for going on, I do enjoy talking philosophy with thoughtful people like you!!! (am I very Gaah!?)
Anonymous... Thanks for praying for her. I really can't imagine what she will be going through.
it's nothing up-close and personal -- i just have faith in myself, people around me and life. the bad of internet -- abstracted my expressions.
i think people turn away from god after going to those schools is because of the great discrepancy between what they're taught and what happens in the reality. may be the the roman catholic churh is relatively conservative, and i think they are losing believers tremendously because of this. i know some christianity church they "run the business" very well (like you went partying), people really enjoy going to church then.
for me, i especially dislike it when they have to attribute everything to "the will of god". i was a vital member of a dedicated religious group at school and i tried hard to convince myself that i DO believe in god. perhaps it's because of influence from my parents, i always have this sense that this is not the way that i wanna perceive this world.
after picking up psychology and came across a lot more of different sociology and historical ideas, i thought i have to revise my attitude on this issue, because i just can't still "bear the name of god" when i don't believe in him.
i don't wanna really comment on jesus 'cause i know people including you really repect him. but he is sort of responsible for driving me away... haha, i'm kidding. perhaps i have to blame them for making us study the entire bible for the public exams....
you are certainly ho gaah lah! hahaha... but i have to clarify i am NOT thoughtful but just opinionated; bitchy in other words.
i think may be because i have a pretty strong mentality that's why i don't feel i need to depend on something spiritual or have guides to my life. i might turn to some deity or beliefs one day, but right now it bothers me a lot is those people who spread "the news from god/buddha". some of them are cool, they'll just go away when you reject. a few of them, however, just keep asking "why? why? why?" and would say that you are poor because you don't "open the door" for him.
see, i go even longer. seriosuly now i'm more convinced by the ideas of buddhism because of all the philosophy about life they talk about. have you read about them? if you like philosophy you should be interested.
I respect you more and more Cheryl! ( english people are truly Gaah, we come out of the whomb congratulating our mothers)
I think HK and English people are a good fit. One compulsively gives compliments and appologises and the other loves 'face' and can be rude.
Seriously though I recon you're tough on yourself girl! You don't come across as so opinionated (Not yet anyway)...If I ever met you in person maybe I'd see the real Cheryl. Your blog frames you as someone who knows crap when she sees it, thats all (I know, gaah, I can't help it!)
****Do you mind continuing the discussion here? I hope not, its a nice distraction from my hard labour job.....****
Everything you said makes sense. You're studying psychology right? I think I remember looking at your timetable?...
You judged me right in some respects too. I did study Buddhism at University, as well as Islam and Christian theology. So, good call!! I was a Religious ed. teacher and english teacher in UK. Now its just English here in your home town.
sometimes Chrstians are encouraged to do something called 'give their testimony' sounds a bit pretencious but it just means to say why they are christian:. Cheryl, may I give you my testimony???
I really won't be offended if you dont want to read on mate, I know some in your face religious people can be quite sickening. Its up to you....here goes...short version....
Alot of my family members are blind and I was blind as a child but had surgery later. My childhood was quite sheltered and happy b'cos of that. Not as much pressure as HK students! or even mainstreem British kids.
This messed up as a teen though. My parents divorced, my mother remarried an abusive guy and my sister and I were taken away to live in a 'children's home' run by the local government. There was violence, and other things.
To summarise, I became mentally tough too and absolutely independant to the point of isolation. I quit school, got in trouble with the police a couple of times and felt so so superior to anyone who couldn't survive by themself. I learned to despise needy people. Maybe I am still a bit like that, maybe thats why I like HK!!! Everybody is tough. (gaah)
At nineteen, a friend of mine, my best friend since age of 7, who also happens to be an HK person, (hense my respect and love for your city)(gaah) took me to the Sheffield Chinese Christian Church...
For me, changing my mind about so many things didn't come easily. It meant giving up my security blankets, admitting I had been wrong to use my background to make me strong, and changing my mental and emotional direction completely. It was painful. Some of my scars are still painful sometimes, but...
Cheryl, I don't want you to have such a comfortable idea about it and think its a guide and a support for people who need it. That is really less than half the picture. For me, day to day, its also a fight, its a struggle and adds a whole new dimension to everything that, realy does make sense.
I am not trying to convert you and I know you know when an idea makes sense, and when it is BS. I just want you to check it out on your OWN TERMS. Balance your psycho-social discourse with some personal research in appologetics. May I reccommend C.S.Lewis Essays: a 'Grief Observed' 'Mere Christianity' and others.
Cheryl...if you read all this..I will resect you EVEN MOREEE!!! (gaaaaah!)
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